We do not have space to publish every letter we receive but we regularly refresh the page with a sample of recent correspondence.
Proposed
One way of making yourself feel good about your current position is to look around at others in a much worse situation, then at least you can say “I'm better off than those poor buggers”. I acknowledge this approach is a bit flaky, but it can serve to head off persistent internal grumpiness.
In fact as far as medallic issues goes, we do have the opportunity of saying, "but at least we are not in the same boat as them..." Just take a glance at the poor old British Veterans who get nowhere fast on any of their outstanding medal grievances. Many of their issues could so simply be rectified that it makes you laugh, or actually cry.
The
They claim they are protecting the integrity of their awards system. The strategy for this appears to be choosing to stick their heads in the sand and ignore everything. End result - at significant Veterans events in the
The
Ignoring outstanding medal issues by arrogant and complacent official used to be a description applicable to a shameful NZ government, but it now appears the
Glenn Hughes
I have read your comments and fully understand your motivation to instigate the National Defence Medal, when I was the National Secretary for the Merchant Navy Association we lobbied our MPs and the Queen. The response for a National Service Medal for all Merchant Seafarers with five years or more service was also met with disdain from the medals office in
Not happy with this response I wrote to the Deputy Prime Minister John Prescott a former Merchant Seaman, only to be told that this would almost certainly be declined as the Royal Charter would have to be altered and the cost involved would far outreach the need. My colleague Derek Bristow OBE DL of Cambridgeshire and Commodore Warwick master of the Queen Mary11 was invited to meet Derek Twigg the previous minister for Veterans, they asked the question why merchant seamen are treated any differently than those in the armed services.
It a known fact that ships are taken out of trade to work alongside those in the armed services, I.e. Falkland 44 merchant ships Gulf War 22 Gulf War 24 Afghanistan 18. With this argument the new veterans pin was introduced for Merchant Seamen and the title of the forth service, veterans all over this country and servicemen and women are treated as second class citizens by this government and previous governments alike. However I have noticed from your campaign no mention of our service or its personnel.
I belong to the Federation of Plymouth & District Ex Services Associations, we have over 66 associations within our group your email was issued out to those branches and the deathly silence around our AGM yesterday was of total disbelief. We have asked each and everyone of there members to write to this minister but we don't hold much luck, he may have taken over from Derek Twigg who fought for our own Veterans day for this nomark to rename Armed Services Day.
Ron Carter
It is a cold, wet and blustery November morning by a village war memorial.
Remembrance Day.
Straining to get themselves as proudly upright as possible four slightly stooped septuagenarian veterans in their blazers and berets are standing with bowed heads while their local bugler once again lets forth his perennial rendition of the Last Post. Along with all the others on similar parades around the world this day, these four particular veterans sport in their berets the cap badges of corps, arms and regiments of Australia, Canada, New Zealand — and the United Kingdom.
Nothing extraordinary about that. Since 11th November 1919 similar ceremonies have taken place annually in the
But back to the blustery, rain drenched steps of our village war memorial.
Bruce, the Australian veteran, is wearing his Australian Service Medal with its
However . . .
Much to his ever-lasting embarrassment and the perennial puzzlement of his commonwealth comrades, our good old true blue British vet, Harold, has no medal whatsoever to display on his virgin breast, nothing at all to show for his service to Queen and country, even though he underwent the same levels of risk and rigour in
An ever increasing body of British veterans have for long been challenging this woeful state of affairs, by lobbying the MoD’s powers-that-be to recommend to Her Majesty the Queen (via the venerable Honours and Decorations Committee) that a British form of National Defence Medal (similar to the already-issued Australian version) really should be instituted, and further, that the whole contentious broader issue of retrospective British Armed Forces’ medals awards should be thoroughly investigated.
According to
Like many other veterans, I believe there is an urgent need for open dialogue between the MoD and officially recognised veterans’ representatives to discuss and resolve all these medal issues that are of such deep and meaningful concern to veterans.
Any reader interested in learning more about the campaign to rectify this invidious state of affairs, and the depth of feeling of the veteran community regarding the whole contentious and demeaning issue, is invited to visit the National Defence Medal website at http www.nationaldefencemedal.webs.com .
Please don’t wait too long, or there will be too few of us left ever to wear the damn’ things anyway.
Richard Farrar
Email r-bfarrar@sympatico.ca
Mr. Farrar is a retired Chartered Accountant living in Toronto,
Those of use that served in the 1970's & 80's didn’t do it for medals or even the money, however when I think about it the last medals awarded to anyone in my family was to both my father WW2 and grandfather WW1, my brother served from 1966 to 1980 in the Royal Navy and I from 1977 to 1981 in the RAF Regiment, so my family just on my dad's side have served this country for the best part of a century.
If we'd been in the
I don't begrudge anybody else what they have, but anyone looking at me on armed forces day for instance wouldn't even know I’d served our Queen and Country. Even if we purchased a blazer and badge, they’d assume we’d never made it out of barracks let alone sweated blood in the jungle in Belize or froze our knackers off during North German winters, so yes I think it is about time our politicians and career civil servants, stopped telling us how proud they are of us, and actually bloody well show it by giving use all an National Defence Medal to prove it, the insignificant veterans badge doesn’t cut the mustard.
David Kelley BSc
Dear Sir Jock,
I have no doubt that the recent deaths of Sappers Patrick Azimkar and Mark Quinsey will weigh as heavily upon you as they will on all who have a Service connection that they hold dear.
Sadly these deaths do not reflect or support the oft expressed viewpoint of the MoD on the risk and rigour aspect of daily service life in places where peace and accord are supposedly the order of the day. Coupled with the abuse rained on Soldiers of the Royal Anglian Regiment as they exercised their right to parade through the precincts of Luton Town, my birthplace incidentally, they show that a rethink of this mindset is well overdue. As things stand, there is no official token that can be offered to the bereaved familes of the dead Sappers, other than a scrap of paper expressing the governments regret. This is where the shortcomings of the HMAFVB, as opposed to a properly constituted NDM become readily apparent.
As an Australian citizen Sir Jock, I can assure you that the ADM, given posthumously in both active service conditions or retrospectively to the family of a dead veteran, is most highly prized by next of kin. It is a tangible sign of appreciation Sir Jock, not a 'catchweight' bauble that was set up as a red herring, in order to head off what was coming by way of a demand for proper recognition of service in the Armed Forces of the UK.
Once again Sir Jock, I urge you to reconsider the merits of the NDM as advocated, it would be easily set up and if the retrospective version was paid for by the applicant as suggested, the cost would be minimal.
Please believe me Sir Jock, when I reiterate to you that the trite old arguments trotted out by the diehard 'traditionalists' are very badly flawed and would not stand examination in the cold hard light of day, We have already refuted most of them to the degree that MPs and Ministers relying on their veracity, have had occasion to apologise for their errors.
If the Armed Forces require modernising every so often, so do the ancillary aspects that apply to them, including honours and awards, to think otherwise is the height of folly.
Yours aye, Gerry Peck
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Webmaster note: MoD spokesman Mr RT Coney stated:
“Medals are awarded free of charge to individuals who meet or exceed the published qualifying criteria laid down for each one. Cost has never been a factor in deciding whether or not to introduce a new medal”
I HAVE read with interest and anger the range of comments about the absence of a British Army of the Rhine (BAOR) medal for ex-Service personnel who “have nothing to show” for their service.
One comment from a former “civilian clerk”, who said the veteran’s badge was enough, was insulting. How dare he. This is the kind of unmitigated rubbish that frankly should not even be published – let the argument at least be from ex-Servicemen/women.
The Queen gave permission for other Commonwealth countries to issue what is effectively a general service medal for “non-combatant” service, so why doesn’t the MoD approach her for the same award for BAOR and other similar service?
I applaud all Service personnel in any armed conflict and they rightly deserve medals (and more).
However, I do not attend memorial services/Remembrance Day parades because I am embarrassed by the fact that, despite nine years (five in
Nothing that is except for the risible veteran’s badge.
We still have the best fighting forces in the world, but with little recognition for service other than what is deemed politically necessary, I have nothing but contempt for those in office who use empty arguments such as cost to insult all those who have served Queen and country.
David Atkinson,
I’VE been reading with interest and agreeing with the letters from those calling for the issue of a medal for service in the British Army of the Rhine (BAOR) during the Cold War years.
There seems to be some confusion on behalf of younger soldiers that the Germany of the past was like the Germany of today.
I served in the 3rd Royal Tank Regiment (sadly no longer with us) for a total of six years prior to transferring to the Royal Air Force.
Four-and-a-half of those years were spent in Germany and, as the Cold War was in full swing, a minimum of eight months a year were spent preparing for
war with the Warsaw Pact.
The regiment also had to help guard supplies of munitions – stockpiled in case of conflict – and conduct security duties along the Berlin Wall.
The threat of invasion also meant that there were restrictions placed on block
leave with a minimum of 50 per cent manning required at all time.
I know soldiers who spent 12 years in Germany and have nothing to show for their service, even though they worked hard for their country and were separated from friends and family.
While soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan endure extreme and exhausting conditions and face danger on a daily basis, life in Germany during the 1980s was certainly no Oktoberfest, so why shouldn’t service there be recognised with a medal?
Does the MoD consider the years spent protecting the interests of the UK in Germany a waste of time and not worthy of mention? – Sgt John Anstee, MPGS, Poole.
SUCCESSIVE governments have ignored loyal and steadfast service by many Armed Forces personnel. The unofficial Veterans Badge is barely visible and is no substitute for a medal.
Many veterans believe that we should follow the Australian lead with a National Defence Medal. Our award system is unfair and archaic, hence diminishing military service.
CHARLES LOVELACE (Published in The Sun)
Liphook, Hants
I agree in principle to all that you say, and I wish you well for the campaign, I fear that every point that you have raised, every detail that you have explained to 'them that be' will become a mammoth struggle to set the wheels in positive motion.
Look at the effort it took to even obtain a Veterans' Badge, of which to date somewhere in the region of 3/4 million have been awarded. To my great annoyance the accompanying certificate from 'our grateful nation' was not from either H.M., the Prime Minister, the Chief of Staff or even the Defence Secretary himself but from the Under Secretary! This of course only highlights the disrespect that is shown to the Forces in general.
Next problem - pecking order. We have all seen the fights for recognition by such as the Women’s Land Army, the Bevan Boys and the long struggle by the vets of the Suez Crisis. The current, I think, is for Bomber Command Crews.
Then government arms will be raised and in total ignorance, the only question asked will be " How much will that cost?"
It beggars belief, for example, that a lollipop lady can get an MBE but an ex-squaddie gets a lapel badge! When he takes the shilling he knows not what is waiting around the next corner career-wise. He's not the master of his own destiny. He might enjoy an uneventful service life or the complete opposite ergo the present day situations.
Did you know that even an officer cadet becomes eligible for the US Defense Medal!
I agree that thro' shopping around one can build quite an impressive 'row' of available private purchase commemoratives, but I disagree that a vet should purchase or even offer to purchase a NDM, otherwise the essence of it being an award is lost.
Okay, my PRV is settling down now. God speed with your crusade and all power to your elbow!!
Warm Regards .. Mel (Nobby)
Sir, Successive governments have ignored loyal and steadfast service by many Armed Forces personnel. The unofficial Veterans Badge is barely visible and is no substitute for a medal. Many veterans believe that we should follow the Australian lead with a national defence medal. Our award system is unfair, archaic and anachronistic, and diminishes military service. The great British public should now rally round and support this laudable campaign, since some servicemen and women have nothing to show for years or even decades of service to our country.
Charles Lovelace (The Times)
So much already said on the emotive issue of whether or not a medal should be struck for personnel who serve in the Armed Forces for a specific period of time. Would I want one? Yes I would indeed! As it would be retrospective in my case, would I be prepared to shell out for it? Absolutely! Do I think such a medal is justified and worthy of inclusion in the panoply of honours and awards for Britons? Too right I do!
I joined up in 1953 aged 15 and my motives were split between a home life that was well worth escaping from and a desire to do and be something different to most of my contemporaries. I harboured no thoughts of glory per se but was quietly confident that I would cope with whatever I was called on to do. I wore my uniform with pride and went where sent. I mourned my lost career when medically downgraded and I reluctantly left the Army after a total of 12 years, man and boy. Now I have a small badge to wear, with 'instructions' as to where and when. Like so many others, I was never sent to where some sort of medal might be issued to show that this particular 'Kilroy' had 'been there'. I feel diminished when I stand alongside of others who have more to show for the time they put in and I think that is a very bad thing, as I am not at all comfortable with feeling and looking like some sort of 'second class' veteran, through no fault of my own.
I support the concept of a National Defence Medal because it would be a proper and worthy emblem of acknowledgement for one who was there if needed and to my mind, anyone who has served in the uniform(s) of his or her country, fully warrants that. The
GP
I was astonished by the resentment of some of your correspondents towards commemorative medals. I’m an ex-seafarer who took part in the Spithead Review in 1977 and did not get a Silver Jubilee Medal (although we did get a free pint from Her Majesty).
People who served in the Cold War era would have gladly gone on active service if required, so I see nothing wrong in them purchasing and wearing commemorative medals if they wish to do so. Those who served during this time are no lesser men and women than those serving today.
Why can’t the MoD issue Service medals to all serving and past military personnel? I treasure my Veterans Badge but if the MoD can stretch to the expense of a badge, why not a medal?
Paul Stephenson, County Offaly,
Royally annoyed by inconsistency
HAVING served in the Forces and, like many others, received no medals during my years in uniform, I recently attended a Veterans Day parade and saw many wearing commemorative medals both on their own and alongside “official” medals.
Some of these veterans had clearly seen a lot of action but were proud to wear their commemorative medals. One thing that became apparent, however, was hostility towards members of the Royal Family who seem exempt from the usual rules.
One old boy was furious that Prince Edward – who didn’t even get through basic training – has not only been made an honorary colonel but has a chest full of medals, and that Prince Charles wears both foreign and commemorative medals. Others highlighted that Princes William and Harry were both awarded the Queen’s Golden Jubilee Medal while not meeting the normal criteria on the grounds that the Monarch can award it to whoever she wants. If that’s the case why can’t she give it to all those who have served during her reign – even if recipients have to pay for it?
Another veteran pointed out that during the Troubles in
Other Commonwealth countries like
AS a former British soldier I was intrigued Prince William is to get an “active service” medal, no less, from the US Coastguard. It will be worn alongside the Queen’s Golden Jubilee Medal he currently wears. I am happy to see a royal scion get a medal that has some merit.
But protocols state that foreign medals are not to be worn, save with special permission.
And if this was active service, what war was it part of? It is customary for royalty and top brass to wear meaningless rows of medals. All very nice, I’m sure, and it must work with the ladies.
But British Veterans are denied a National Defence Medal, a little something thousands have been refused, in case it “devalues” the Imperial awards system. Medals are given for the higher echelons at the slightest excuse, while real grafters get nothing.
GERRY PECK
I SHARE the views voiced by Charles Lovelace (July Issue Soldier Magazine) with regard to the Veteran’s Badge and in particular his support for the striking of a National Defence medal. I served as a National Serviceman from 1954-56 rising to the rank of sergeant, which, in my opinion, is worthy of greater recognition than a badge. Although I am proud to own a National Service medal it lacks the formal status of an official decoration. Many young men of my generation served the nation with genuine pride and distinction, a substantial number making the supreme sacrifice, yet successive Governments have failed to recognise their contribution. What a sad reflection upon our political representatives.
Bernard R Pumfrey, RAOC & RLC Associations,
Dear Sir,
I note that you have resigned in a humiliating manner being unable to attend to the ongoing situation in
The Rt. Hon.Don Touhig, a former Labour Minister for Veterans at a meeting with me in March stated that he thought the final sentence was both arrogant and dismissive. He was extremely gracious, unlike others, in affording me a meeting at Portcullis House and a real breath of fresh air and common sense.
The Minister for Veterans, Derek Twigg has recently declined to meet a representative to discuss the situation relating to medals and the Veterans Badge. However he had time to discuss with PETA the purchase of bearskins. His priorities remain a constant source of incredulity! Many of our campaign members are awaiting a timely response to correspondence sent to his department.
You now have time to reflect on the manifest failures which took place on your watch relating to the Armed Forces. Poor housing, poor pay, insufficient adequate medical facilities for the injured, the attempt to muzzle Coroners, delays in inquests, the short turn round time between tours in hostile areas, the continued use of outdated snatch vehicles which at last after several years are being replaced. Then of course there has been the lack of electronic scanners for vehicles to detect roadside IEDs and indeed we had to rely on the Danes for such cover. In 2006 there was the RAF Nimrod crash with the sad loss of 14 lives and there have been many suggestions put forward as to the cause. There was the open hostility towards you from the 4 former CDSs' in the House of Lords and now just before you left office our wonderful Gurkhas had to take this contemptible and wretched administration to court.
The list is unending and rest assured we will still be campaigning when other Ministers are ejected from office or forced to resign.
Yours faithfully,
Charles Lovelace
Attn. Mr. R.T. Coney, Defence Services Secretary
Re – Letter dated 17 September 2008 - D/DS Sec/1102/29
From all the negative correspondence received on the important issues which I have raised on behalf of Veterans, it is now clear the
As previously stated, the government has no hesitation in committing our troops to dangerous and dubious campaigns just to show the flag, mostly for political reasons and costing billions of pounds. Yet, when it comes to recognize their hardships and bravery with a simple medal that cost only a few pounds, they fail miserably. The logic escapes me and gives the impression our troops are simply considered disposable assets. Instead of being a grateful nation, the U.K has now proved to be a shameful nation. The manner in which other countries, such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand prove my point when it comes to recognizing and supporting those who serve their country with honour, pride and dignity. I am shocked and dismayed at the resistance shown in these matters of great importance to veterans, past, present and future also, their families.
I again wish to note for the record that you never answered my allegations of discrimination with respect to the G.S.M. (
You also state, the Ministry of Defence now considers these matters closed and I must disagree with the “Whitehall Armchair Warriors” decision. These valid and important issues must be addressed at some point and I will use whatever means possible to get proper recognition for all Veterans. Perhaps when P.M. Brown is replaced, common sense might prevail.
Major S.H. Pollock CD
Gordon Brown has taken it upon himself to recognise the sacrifices of the people who served in the Air Transport Auxiliary (ATA) in World War 2. A special ceremony was held in Downing Street for surviving members of this branch of the RAF, the pilots of which, ferried planes of every description across the Atlantic during WW2. In waiting this long before recognising their contribution to the war effort, the powers that be have ensured that the number of recipients is down to a bare minimum and this has to be seen, really, as a most cynical exercise in penny pinching. Rather than a true recognition of a valiant and most praiseworthy effort from and by people who were deemed unfit for combat duties by the RAF. I have no doubt that as their numbers fall through natural attrition to a suitably low proportion of the original whole, other similar organisations will also receive very belated recognition and accolades.
This is the most likely logic behind the dour and unrelenting opposition to a National Defence Medal (NDM) that would highlight the dedication to duty of so many thousands of ex Servicemen and women who served during the 'Cold War'. When the last of our 'breed' are clinging stubbornly to life, they too will no doubt be 'entertained' and lionised by a publicity seeking political hack who cynically exploits the dedication of whole generations of those who served.
We must not allow this to happen, the awarding of an NDM needs to be set in motion now, so that the majority of those who did their bit can stand proud alongside their comrades whenever 'Old Sweats' gather to honour their fellows.
Those within whose ambit and aegis this lies, that blindly refuse to acknowledge the need to do this, need to be exposed to the light of day, their waffle and lame excuses openly displayed as the garbage that it truly is. The increasingly exposed position that they cling so stubbornly to is demonstrably untenable, as witness the alterations endorsed by HM the Queen on behalf of her Commonwealth Governments, as they shy away from the archaic, inadequate and totally inappropriate Imperial awards system. Yours Gerry
REFERENCE previous letters in these pages about the award of a Cold War medal, the Canadian forces have a medal for service in Germany – the Special Service Medal with NATO bar which is awarded for a minimum of six months’ service.
After the Remembrance Sunday parade last year I sat in a Royal Canadian Legion canteen next to a younger Canadian who was wearing the SSM with a Nato bar. He told me he had served only eight months in Germany before the Canadian Brigade returned to Canada.
I served in BAOR three times for a total of more than 11 years and have nothing to show for it. The Canadian medal had to be approved by the Queen, so why can’t one be approved for British forces?
John Reynolds http://www.soldiermagazine.co.uk/mail_archive/medals.htm
I have read all of the letters about the injustice and total lack of caring for the veterans who’ve served, no matter how long or where we are all being treated with disrespect.
I have the ‘badge’, it never did feel right, but this I thought was all I would ever get for serving. I feel naked when on parade with other Legion members of WW2,
I was a National Serviceman in BAOR in 60-61 and I served Queen and Country, it just really galls me to read some bureaucrat who never laced up these boots say that we are not due this respect. Maybe what we should all do is send the badge back, all to the same person, I think that would be making a statement!!
Val Glen
Note: The NDM Campaign strongly supports the
I served my King and country from July 21-07-1949 to August 12 1951 by completing my
National Service. I served in the Canal Zone with the 71st HAA 190 Battery Royal Artillery at Normandy Camp in Fayid
During the above mentioned dates SIX Royal Artillery personnel were killed by terrorist
activity (Army words not mine) and are buried in
THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I ?
Neither they nor I qualify for the Suez General Service Medal, in my opinion it is disgraceful.
There were numerous other soldiers and airmen killed in this period by terrorists. CAN WE PLEASE BE RECOGNISED.
Ex 22159011 Gunner
The Veterans weekend just gone, saw me attend my first commemorative/remembrance event since I left the RAF in the 1980’s. It was a pleasure to meet so many Veterans all of whom were keenly interested in my time in the Royal Air Force.
As I was not wearing any Military Medals a couple of Veterans raised the subject of ‘Commemorative’ medals and pointed out that a large number of Veterans on parade were actually wearing them, some on their own having never received any and others openly alongside official medals. I was then made aware of your campaign and others like it and have, spent the past few days researching the subject and also written to my MP.
However, my opinion for what it’s worth is that I support the concept of a single medal for the completion of say 1 year service as happens in many other countries as this would accommodate those who were called up for National Service, which I understand could have been as short as 1 year and up to 2 and would also give recognition to those who volunteered.
The reason that I agree with the 1 year concept is that normally, service men and women would have usually been deployed to their Ships, Units or Stations within 6 months and were therefore ‘operational’ and would have been fully integrated and effective within the period of a year. The 1939-1945 Medal only required a period of 28 days service for both operational and non-operation personnel to qualify, many recipients being well out of harms way.
The years in which the IRA waged a war against British targets and Military Personnel, saw many die on the Mainland who protected the country from that terrorist threat and yet only those who served directly in the
My opinions are based from having looked at various campaigns, including the one for a National Defence Medal, a Cold War Victory medal and a National Service Medal and I think all could best be served by the issue of a ‘single’ medal which would recognise everyone who served a period of at least 1 year. The same time frame could be used for Reserve Forces with an ‘Oval’ Medal. Simplicity is a better argument and also would also prove to be more economical. I think that the government would be much more likely to listen to a simple and inclusive argument for a basic medal than deal with varying medals and qualifying periods.
Andy Davies (Ex RAF,
The MOD on their website have said “This year's Veterans Day is being marked with a series of celebratory events taking place all over the country aimed at honouring those men and women who have made a unique contribution to the nation. One of the main celebrations takes place in Trafalgar Square on Friday 27 June 2008. It will play host to the main London Veterans Day event this year and Defence Secretary Des Browne, Chief of the Defence Staff and Vice Chief of the Defence Staff, are expected to present HM Armed Forces Veterans Badges to veterans from the Ministry Of Defence and other Government Departments.”
Lauding the Veterans Badge as a suitable reward and recognition for years of service, is a cheapskate way of denying the real value of the years committed by all those veterans who missed out on a medal because of the parsimonious attitude of the MoD and its Mandarins. Someone should try to calculate just how many years the total of unrecognised service tots up to, certainly way more than should be cynically debased by the issuance of a bauble.
Gerry.Peck
Does Our Government Care?
I served in
Anyone who had the misfortune to be posted to
Keep up the good work, veterans deserve recognition.
Yours sincerely, Richard Farrar
Is cost the stumbling block?
G'Day, I think that an official medal denoting loyal service in the Armed Forces is long overdue.
I think that the problem in not getting one off the ground is probably expense related and given the parsimonious nature of all shades of Government, this will remain a significant stumbling block.
To counter this, medals for ex Servicemen could be granted at the applicants expense, via an approved purveyor of military medals. A proportion of the cost, rather than being taken up as tax, should instead be utilised as a funding measure for duly registered and approved Service charities.
That would effectively remove the cost factor, as the governments only role would be to initially approve the scheme. No outlay but no fiscal gain either and as regards the latter, I think that is fair enough.
Every man Jack that purchases such a medal will be happier to know that his outlay will benefit old comrades that are in need of a leg-up. A win-win situation for all, I would humbly suggest.
Yours aye, Gerry Peck.
I have been following the debate on bling medals. As an ex-Regular I am totally opposed to wearing of them.
Medals are fought for and earned, although I can understand that a lot of men and women who served our country have nothing to show for it.
Maybe the solution to stop the wearing of souvenirs would be for the MoD to follow the footsteps of Commonwealth countries such as Australia and issue a Defence Medal to everyone who has served at least one year since the end of the Second World War.-
Tony Johnson,
We didn't have the vote....but still we went
To dangerous places even, some got sent.
Some lost their lives...and all forfeited years while those who dodged it polished their careers.
Caterwaul and prance...you'll be a Knight but a National Defence Medal's out of sight for those who did their bit without a fuss.
Discharge and a Pin is all they've given us.
Our Dear Queen's Aussie 'Nasho's' got their gong.
Why not us Brits....what did we do wrong?
Could be the same old 'Turf and Precedent’ story -
So the Lads and Gals who kept the Cold War...cold,
Still go without....'specially now we're old!
But medal or not, we served...so don't forget if you're reading this in English... thank a Vet!
Mike Bye (2008 Copyright) Suez Veteran
I am writing to thank you for your emails of March 31st and 19th April, alerting me to your website and your review of the qualification and issue criteria of Service medals. I was impressed with the comprehensive scope and concision of your analysis. You have clearly brought formidable know-how to bear on this issue, as well as diligent research. I have put your review on file for my future reference.
I agree with you that there is plenty of room for improvement and standardisation as regards to medals. Certainly, we owe a duty of care and gratitude to all of those who serve in our armed forces, and should not shy away from awarding service personnel the recognition they deserve fur their commitment. I have had numerous letters from veterans wishing to see a change in the criteria concerning the awarding of medals, and recently wrote to the Rt. Hon. Derek Twigg MP requesting information as to the possibility of new medals for specific campaigns.
I’d like to reassure you that many MPs, myself included, are trying to keep medals and other service welfare issues high on the political agenda. Medals were recently the subject of a Westminster Hall debate, and questions are frequently asked in Parliament regarding the fairness (or lack thereof) of the current system for awarding medals.
You may know that the Liberal Democrats are running a campaign fur better recognition of the military covenant. This includes broad support of arguments for greater recognition for our Armed Forces. You can read more about the campaign at our defence website: www.blogs.Iibdems.org.uk/forcesfocus.
One document that might particularly interest you is the research document you will find posted on the site, entitled ‘Our Nation’s Duty’.
Finally, I would like to congratulate you and your colleagues at the Campaign for a UK National Defence Medal (NDM) on a fantastic campaign! Do feel free to use the comments in this letter on your website.
If you have any further questions or comments, please don’t hesitate to contact me again through my researcher, Claire Yorke, at the following email address: yorkec@parliament.uk.
Thank you again for contacting me.
Yours sincerely,
Nick Harvey MP
One day this could be a
For
The ceremony also attended by 41st Battalion Major Alan Hockings, who said the medals honoured those who previously could not receive service recognition. "These ceremonies are great, because there are a lot of people who have served our country for many years with conviction and devotion, but have previously gone unrecognised," Major Hockings said. The Australian Defence Medal is awarded to regular and reserve force members who have completed their initial enlistment period or four years of service after World War II.
Former Royal Australian Air Force Warrant Officer and medal recipient Doreen Taylor said it was good to share the honour with her family members. "To be in the air force for 22 years as a woman and to reach the rank of warrant officer is something I'm proud of, it's great to receive that recognition." Member for Richmond Justine Elliot said the medals acknowledged those who served in all circumstances of service and thanked former Australian Defence Force members for their service at the ceremony.
April 17, 2008 - http://www.tweednews.com.au/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3769967
Nick Clegg and Sir Menzies Campbell are currently looking into setting up a military commission which Sir Menzies will lead. Its remit will cover areas such as health, welfare, families and awards.
The armed forces are a very important part of this country and Nick has spoken out in Parliament on several occasions about the lack of support from the Government towards funding, equipment and was involved in the recent campaign concerning the Ghurkhas.
Ultimately it is the Minister of Defence and the Queen who sanction medals, Nick will continue to pressure the Government on the issues surrounding the National Defence Medal
Yours sincerely
Victoria Helyar-Cardwell
Correspondence Manager
Office of Nick Clegg
The letter in the April edition of Soldier Magazine by WO1 Spence Parry, on the above subject, in response to Mr.Tony Morland, does not even merit an outer signalled from the butts on a firing range. He completely misses the point and sadly churns out his master's well-practiced rhetoric
The NDM campaigners want a medal to wear on parade in recognition of their loyal and steadfast service.
The Lapel Badge is not a replacement for a medal because its intended use is quite different. Also it lacks the visibility and respect of a medal.
The manifest failure of the MoD to recognize the validity of a National Defence Medal will merely encourage even more of the deplorable 'Bling' merchants.
http://www.soldiermagazine.co.uk/mail_archive/medals.htm
Charles Lovelace (cc.Soldier Magazine)
Just to play Devils advocate on the emotive subject of medals:
BAOR existed for a long period of time and during that time tension was on occasion quite high; the Berlin Blockade instantly springs to mind and the unplanned “Active Edges” when the 3rd Shock Army started to play too close to the border. It’s so easy to forget the hard times and only remember the good.
As an aside the IRA campaign on the Continental mainland of the late 80’s was an emotional time for all involved. Bombings of family cars (black and white forces number plates!!!), bombings/mortar attacks on barracks, drive by shooting and the assassination of at least 1 soldier at the channel ports. I remember young mothers struggling to hold babies while they carried out under car searches before they got in (I digress).
I agree that a medal is not required in this case, however, how many of those mocking hold the following:
Iraq medals for service in Cyprus (GRANBY and TELIC)
Op GRAPPLE medals for those who stayed in split for the whole time (GRAPPLE 3/4 onwards)
Two medals for 1 tour (GRAPPLE/RESOLUTE)
Medals for service in the Balkans now (you can walk out).
A GSM for service in NI today (normalisation)
I am sure there is a deserving case in all the instances above, but I have heard complaints about each one.
In the days of BAOR medals where few and far between, it was not uncommon to see 22 year soldiers with only the GSM (NI) and LS&GC. What is the difference between a man who served for 3 – 8 (possibly longer) in post war Germany in the 50’s and 60’s and some of the circumstances listed above?
Or to put it another way, how much more deserving is a (rightly proud) soldier today who has 3 or 4 medals for serving in a support role than a combat soldier who served 5 years in WW2 and has the same number (discuss!).
We can all look down our noses at so-called less deserving cases (I have more than some and less than others by the way). Is it so hard to let someone show his or her service/achievements (BAOR being one) without mockery?
CAARPS
I have just left the Royal Marines after 6 years and I’m now about to start a job with the retained fire service and Military Provost Guard Service (Army). I think what you are trying to achieve is admirable and I'm right behind you. I have served in
My father is in the catchment of no medals because of where he served, and there are so many ex-servicemen of the 60's,70's & 80's in the same boat. Why not give these veterans the recognition they deserve? I think I know why - because the government has better things to spend our money on, like hand outs to those who have contributed nothing and aid to country’s even though there are enough needy children/people in our own country.
Maybe someone should point out to the people in authority that without those servicemen that allowed the wheels to turn (cold war times especially) we would not have the wealth or ability to give out these "hand-outs". I live in
Yours sincerely,
John Mcloughlin (Ex Royal Marines)
In January 1991, 40 members of the Territorial Army RMP volunteered for Op Granby in
I AGREE with Tony Morland (" Give this man a medal", Feb). Medals for cold war service should be instigated.
Editor Comment: NDM encompasses all service era’s including the Cold War.
The Home Service Force was established in 1982 during the Cold War (1945-1991). It was introduced to guard key points and installations likely to be a target of enemy Special Forces and saboteurs so releasing other units for mobile defence roles.
It stood down in 1992 having played its part in the Cold War and defence of the realm. Forgotten and unrecognized by the 'powers that be'.
Name Supplied
I've been reading some of the letters on the site and noticed that in the Australian letter 'A Refreshing Attitude - The Scoop', it points out that ...
"The award also recognises those who could not serve the four-year qualifying period because of Defence Force workplace policies of the time. For example, in the past a woman was required to resign from the Service on marriage."
This was of course the policy at the time in the
Regards, Vee
The National Service Veterans Alliance, supports the Campaign for a UK National Defence Medal (NDM) for all service personnel Conscripted and Volunteer. I would appreciate this fact to be included in the anticipated amendment to the your webpage (http://www.veterans-uk.info/medals/national_serv.html).
This is a paragraph from a letter to Veterans Agency a department of the MOD. from the Chair and National Secretary of the NSVA.
Thank you for your message about the institution of a National Defence Medal (NDM) to be awarded to all servicemen, so that, after their discharge, they will have a token of the nation's gratitude for the period, during which they were sworn to risk life and limb for Queen and Country.
The MOD's mistaken policy goes back to the days when almost every man over a certain age was either in the armed forces or had been in them at some time; but this is by no means the case now, and one suspects that the MOD's policy persists out of a combination of petty mean-ness and lack of patriotism.
I think an NDM is a splendid idea and have no hesitation in endorsing it on behalf of the UK Independence Party, with whose aims it is perfectly in tune.
Yours sincerely, Nigel Farage
Medal For A Cold War Warrior?
I SERVED as a Cold War warrior from 1972-84, including six years in
For nine months of the year we perfected our craft in the art of radio communications; all traffic was done in real time in all weathers under all conditions, and if you haven’t experienced a German winter at 2am on the Deiester Ridge you do not know what cold is.
All elements of the British Army of the
Living in field conditions, eating field rations, burdened with weapons and back packs month after month took its toll, but we did it with a will and solid determination.
Now I’m a civilian I have nothing to show that I served my country. That is why I will stand on the sidelines and applaud the be-medalled warriors who were able to prove themselves under fire – something I never had a chance to do.
The veterans’ badge I wear on my lapel is no substitute for a more tangible symbol of time served as a soldier, defending what’s left of
Tony Levy, Served 1972-84 http://www.soldiermagazine.co.uk/mail_archive/medals.htm
The Honours Secretary at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport has passed on the suggestion for a Diamond Jubilee Medal to be awarded to all Veterans who hadn’t previously received a Coronation or Jubilee Medal.
I understand that the question of a Diamond Jubilee Medal has not yet been under discussion in that Department; I have spoken to the Defence Services Secretary’s Office, who say that there are sure the subject will be raised in due course, but that it would probably be a matter to be agreed generally between a number of Government authorities, before seeking The Queen’s approval. As you will know, different criteria were applied when awarding the Silver Jubilee Medal and the Golden Jubilee Medal, and it is too early to say what form, if any, such an award might take.
However, thank you very much for your interest, which I can assure you will be given careful consideration at the appropriate time.
Yours sincerely, Rachel Wells
Assistant Secretary, Central Chancery of the Orders of Knighthood
Princes Charles was an active duty office commanding a Naval Vessel HMS Bromington I think. he was involved in the "Cod" wars. Also he served during the "Cold War". Though he has a number of decorations and medals 31 in all I believe he has no 'earned' military medal to recognise his active duty in the UK Armed Forces. He will of course be entitled the UK Veterans Badge, but like hundreds of thousands has no 'earned' medal. Had he been an ordinary citizen, his Naval service would have left him with no medal at all.
I thought you would be interested in this example of Government thinking:
Land girls –
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article3013377.ece
Land girls – Isle of Man Government award retrospective MEDAL
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/europe/isle_of_man/5370920.stm S.E.W
The National Chair of the National Service Veterans Alliance the official organisation representing all Conscripted men from the close of WW2 until the cessation of Conscription in May 1963, declare in principle the NDM has my support for your campaign.
I am duty bound to state that I have to propose this issue at the next meeting of our National Executive, but I have every confidence that they will endorse my support.
Sir Peter Ricketts, Esq., KCMG.
Bill Jeffery, Esq., CB.
Denis Brennan, Esq.
Honourable Members of the HD Committee,
Gentlemen,
We are initially contacting you since you have a public e-mail facility.
We are campaigning for a NATIONAL DEFENCE MEDAL and in due course
we shall send each member of the HD committee a personal letter detailing
our claim in cogent and logical terms since we have a compelling case.
We are a group of former service men and women , who had the honour and
privilege to serve her Gracious Majesty, Queen Elizabeth, in the uniform of
our country. We all served with honour and fidelity and without wishing to be
impertinent we note that various members of your esteemed committee have
never had such an honour.
In other countries, including NATO, EU and the British Commonwealth, the
military in the broadest sense are repected. They are accorded the grateful
thanks of their respective nations including national honours and awards to
commemorate and mark individual selfless service.
Sadly , we consider that the HD Committee has singularly failed in its duty
and that it is selective in its approach to the issue of medals.
We intend to seek redress in this unhappy situation, by lobbying MPs' for
their support, writing articles in national and local press, using military internet
forums and by contacting the many Regimental Associations.
A simple example is the Soldier Magazine wherein the December 2007,
edition 75% of readers believed that National Servicemen should have been
honoured and the vast majority believed that a medal similar to the Australian
National Defence Medal would be appropriate. We are of course cognizant that
the Government of Australia withdrew from the Imperial Honours System in the
mid 1970s' and as a result are wholly reponsible for any new medals that they
wish to introduce.
The December edition of the NSVA news letter printed copies of correspondence
on this subject with the Rt. Hon.Des Browne, Esq., MP. Surprisingly his response
was totally inaccurate and he was unaware of basic facts appertaining to the ADM
and National Service. He has now been asked for an apology for traducing National Servicemen. In mitigation, possibly he was inadequately briefed, but of course he
like so many other Ministers has never served in uniform.
The Veterans Badge can in no way be deemed to be a visible and tangible expression of loyal service and is regarded in certain quarters with contempt.
We remain so aggrieved ,that in the final analysis we are prepared to petition
her Gracious Majesty the Queen since she has already formally approved a
similar medal.
We refer you to the Commonwealth of Australia Gazette No :S48 of 30 March
2006 which was formally approved by Her Majesty the Queen, namely the
Australian Defence Medal. We are of the opinion that a precedent has now
been set and we will now seek a legal opinion from Counsel.
We commend you to our new website : http://nationaldefencemedal.webs.com
Yours sincerely,
Charles Lovelace.
Dear Mr Coney,
Reference: Proposal for a “National Defence Medal” (Aussies lead the way)
The fact that any letter we send to our wonderful Minister ends up on your desk which you are forced to reply to is as frustrating for us as I’m sure it is for you.
Our intention is to lobby Government not MOD Officials who we assume don’t make policy but follow policy (Please correct us if we're wrong).
You also assume that we have some idea what the “Grant of Honours, Decoration and Medals Committee” is, we have not, or what has previously been submitted for its scrutiny, we do not. So I’m afraid previous “comprehensive” replies on the subject have not given us the full facts. Maybe now we can start asking more relevant and specific questions.
Like:
· What date was the meeting that discussed a proposal for a National Defence Service Medal?
· Do you have details of what the proposal contained, and the case it presented?
· Was it based on the criteria for the Australian version?
· Are there minutes of the meeting relating to the subject so I can fully understand why the British are treated differently from our Australian friends?
This will all be very useful information as it will give a timeframe to properly prepare a detailed case, after any mandatory time lag, for the next ”HD Committee” meeting. We’d also like to distribute the information to others, like us, who do not have this detail at their fingertips so they too can become better informed.
Despite you also pointing out there is “no further purpose continuing this exchange” we very much feel that in the absence of the Minister giving us the information directly we have no other option.
I hope that this explains the situation and I am sorry to have to send you what I realise will be another disappointing reply.
DIAMOND JUBILEE WILL BE TIMELY OCCASION FOR SERVICE MEDAL
IN April I suggested it would be fitting if the next coronation medal be issued to serving and former Service personnel.
May I make another suggestion? In 2012 the Queen will celebrate 60 years of her Monarchy. How about an official award to mark her diamond jubilee, issued to all who have completed at least two years’ service during her reign?
This might satisfy veterans as well as those serving soldiers who find commemorative medals offensive.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/exservicemedal/
Many Ex Servicemen and women have served their country for many years and do not have any award or medal to show for it. A Ex forces medal should be instigated to award all ex forces personnel who served their country for 6 months or more. The current Veterans Lapel Badge is an insult to those who served their country valiantly. Other Commonwealth countries award medals for regular service, why doesn't Britain.
To - The Secretary of State for Defence,
Ministry of Defence,
Floor 5, Zone D.
Dear Sir 10th September 2007
PROPOSAL for: NATIONAL DEFENCE MEDAL
As you are well aware that there has been a considerable clamour from previous
National Servicemen for some form of recognition other than the Veterans Badge.
Recently I also wrote to you on this subject, as did Lt.Col. W.A.Lyons.BEM.(Retd)
Like countless others, I received the standard pro-forma MoD response from
Mr Coney, office Defence Services Secretary — Honours1, who has been in post.
dealing with medals since 1991. Unfortunately his letter dismisses an appeal for
recognition of National Service with the usual practised sophism.
In one of the standard paragraphs he writes; ‘Conversely those who spent their
National Service in the
alongside Regular personnel who likewise, did not receive a medal. It would be
divisive to offer National Servicemen a medal for being conscripted, when those who
volunteered for service would be excluded from receiving any award; even today
many people leave the Armed Forces without having received a campaign medal during
their service.’ His final sentence in this paragraph states; This does not imply that
their contribution to the defence of the country has not been appreciated.' Sadly this is
so far removed from reality that it must surely embarrass the writer, as it does the
reader!. Mr Coney, with well honed indifference fails to appreciate that several, NS
men were in-fact volunteers, e.g. myself for two years prior to call up. just one of many !.
I am cognizant that the Government of Australia, withdrew from the Imperial
Honours System in the mid 1970s’. As a result they are wholly responsible for any
new medals that they wish to introduce. However I refer you to the Commonwealth of
Majesty the Queen, namely the Australian Defence Medal. This medal is awarded to
all Australians. who have served in their Armed Forces, as regulars. national
servicemen or reservists whether at home or abroad. Therefore I commend you to
study the award criteria and to follow Australia‘s very fine example.
In 1992 the late Gen. Sir Anthony Farrar-Hockley, GBE, DSO, MC, MLitt(Oxon)
with the Royal British Legion sponsored the National Service Medal. This in my
opinion was a grave error of judgement since it has subsequently spawned a plethora
of unofficial medals. These medals have been a source of vitriolic debate within the
service community, as evidenced in the very robust letter columns of the Soldier
Magazine under the heading of Bling. They make for instructional reading and
should be studied in the MoD to gauge public opinion and resentment of officialdom.
In other countries, including NATO, EU and the
in the broadest sense, are respected. They are accorded the grateful thanks of their
respective nations including national honours and awards to commemorate and mark
individual selfless service. An immediate example is
Defence, Charles Hernu, and on the proposal of Gen.de Boissieu, instituted the
Medaille de la Defence Nationale, for Active Servicemen, National Servicemen,
reservists and civilians killed or wounded on national duty. Interestingly men of all
nationalities who serve in ‘La Legion etrangere’ are entitled to this medal.
It is time for the British Government and MOD to wake up, recognise and honour
military service wherever undertaken with a National Defence Medal, not
in be confused with the 1939/45 United Kingdom Defence Medal.
The current confrontation over medals is extremely unpleasant and the situation is not
improved by the perceived intransigence of the MOD to recognise veterans. who have
a genuine sense of grievance. The failure of the MOD to address the problems of
medals correctly and with integrity increases the contempt felt by former service
personnel for that Department. Many people consider the Veterans Badge to have
been an insult and a mere political gesture made for electoral gains.
For its part the MOD must be fed up with the constant flow of irate letter writers and
with former servicemen wearing all sorts of unofficial and commemorative medals on
parade. However there is a simple remedy, which will solve the honour of all parties.
That is to institute a NATIONAL DEFENCE MEDAL, encompassing criteria of
service similar to that required for recipients of the Australian Defence Medal.
A NATIONAL DEFENCE MEDAL would ensure that ‘Bling’ became a relic of an
unhappy past. It would no longer be seen or worn on parade. In reality Bling’ shames
our current mean spirited administration, for failure to deal with the grievances, long
held by Regulars, National Servicemen and Reservists of all arms.
True recognition of veterans and current serving personnel, is all part of the ever
present Military Covenant and I trust that you will treat this letter with the merit that it
justly deserves and address the proposal for a NATIONAL DEFENCE MEDAL.
Yours faithfully,
Charles Lovelace.
Former Lt RMV.,Colonial Police Officer & Queen’s Regt 6/7(V) HSF Officer
(Letter also appeared in the NSVA Christmas Edition of their journal)