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British Veterans National Defence Medal (NDM) Campaign
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The New MoD Position as of 16th May 2011
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The Coalition set out its intention in the Programme for Government, published in May 2010, to review the rules governing the award of medals as apart of its commitment to rebuild the military covenant. A draft medal review has now been completed by the Ministry of Defence. In line with the Government's Transparency Agenda, the relevant elements of the report will shortly be sent to representatives of the various medal campaign groups, including for the National Defence Medal, that have pressed in recent years for recognition for service which they consider has gone unacknowledged. This will provide an opportunity for us to consider the views of the various campaign groups and it would be inappropriate to comment on the likely outcome of the review until any representations received have been fully considered.
I understand the motives and reasons behind the call for such a medal, but we must await the final outcome of the review before any decision is reached.
I hope this explains the situation.
The Rt Hon Andrew Robathan MP,
Minister For Defence Personnel Welfare And Veterans
Ministry Of Defence
Floor 5 Zone B MainBuilding
Whitehall London SW1A 2HB
Telephone: 02072189000 (Switchboard)
A word from the campaign team:
This is NOT consultation, the review is COMPLETE. This is a rubber stamping exercise and does not imply revised Terms of Reference, an independent chair, or even that one word of the review completed back in January will be changed. Do not be fooled by this smokescreen.
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44 Comments
UK NDM
It is not appropriate that the Minister is trying to start another agenda on motives and reasons for such a medal. This has been well documented and aired in Parliament and to the public. The Minister needs to re-read the documents and the justification provided to him for the award of this medal to veterans, then without delay make a request to
Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II to approve it.
It is not appropriate that the Minister is trying to start another agenda on motives and reasons for such a medal. This has been well documented and aired in Parliament and to the public. The Minister needs to re-read the documents and the justification provided to him for the award of this medal to veterans, then without delay make a request to
Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II to approve it.
Very good points John. It is hard not to be cynical given everything they have done so far to avoid engaging veterans. The MoD have been dragged kicking and screaming into consultation. It will be very difficult for us to believe they have any intention of changing the report they finished back in January, to do so would be to admit they made mistakes, hardly the MoD way.
I have little confidence in Mr Robathan or his review team. It needs to be independent or it will be no more than yet another stalling tactic.
One other point in this new era of Government Transparency, perhaps they will let us all read what they have written so far.
I have little confidence in Mr Robathan or his review team. It needs to be independent or it will be no more than yet another stalling tactic.
One other point in this new era of Government Transparency, perhaps they will let us all read what they have written so far.
"Transparency" is the new Buzz word as far as this polie is concerned it means absolutely s.d all .No Flyboy I doubt they will publish what they have put on paper (If anything ) it's just the usual politition clap trap.
I liked the comments from Mr R which claim an understanding for the motives and reasons behind a call for a British NDM . Obviously these words can be interpreted in a number of ways , if he is claiming his understanding of the motives and reasons would be leading him to support and NDM then clearly his past actions and words are in contradiction to these understandings . But I think there is a smoke and mirrors application to these words and they have merely been written as a yellow smokescreen in order to decieive . Wordgames comes to mind .
------------------
I understand the motives and reasons behind the call for such a medal, but we must await the final outcome of the review before any decision is reached.
I hope this explains the situation.
The Rt Hon Andrew Robathan MP,
Minister For Defence Personnel Welfare And Veterans
------------------
I understand the motives and reasons behind the call for such a medal, but we must await the final outcome of the review before any decision is reached.
I hope this explains the situation.
The Rt Hon Andrew Robathan MP,
Minister For Defence Personnel Welfare And Veterans
Thus the situation is explained, or is it? At first Mr Robathan did not believe there was need for consultation, now, it seems, he does. He states here, and it is with regard to the NDM, that 'it would be inappropriate to comment on the likely outcome...' . Did he not state to Mr McShane that he feared he would disappoint? Should the word 'partial' also not proceed each use of the word 'transparency'? And, lastly, if the relevant parts of the report are soon to be sent... what are the irrelevent parts? I am bored of my unworthiness.
Lilly White says...
Thus the situation is explained, or is it? At first Mr Robathan did not believe there was need for consultation, now, it seems, he does. He states here, and it is with regard to the NDM, that 'it would be inappropriate to comment on the likely outcome...' . Did he not state to Mr McShane that he feared he would disappoint? Should the word 'partial' also not proceed each use of the word 'transparency'? And, lastly, if the relevant parts of the report are soon to be sent... what are the irrelevent parts? I am bored of my unworthiness.
I made a formal complaint as a private individual to the Cabinet Office about Rowbathan and his dissimulation. He was misleading in the debate at Westmister Hall and in my opinion deliberately so. With supporting evidence
I have made a very stong case against him. EG. His claim that there was very little support and that the MoD had received less than 200 letters. Well
one letter sent to his predecessor had 3000 supporters under their banner and another 10,500. I also obtained under the FOI a copy of a recent MoD in house e-mail with the following question and answer. (?) Which medal has more canvassing than any other ? (A) The National Defence Medal. In my
opinion he is disingenuous, dishonourable and untrustworthy.
He is also under investigation for misleading parliament in a debate about Nuclear Test veterans and their compensation etc. He grudgingly ( MoD)was forced to apologise but refuses to correct the Hansard version of the debate. So on the record it appears that his statement was accurate. I also
asked for a correction in Hansard. over his discredited comments on our lack of support.
This minister should understand that he cannot fart against thunder !
I have made a very stong case against him. EG. His claim that there was very little support and that the MoD had received less than 200 letters. Well
one letter sent to his predecessor had 3000 supporters under their banner and another 10,500. I also obtained under the FOI a copy of a recent MoD in house e-mail with the following question and answer. (?) Which medal has more canvassing than any other ? (A) The National Defence Medal. In my
opinion he is disingenuous, dishonourable and untrustworthy.
He is also under investigation for misleading parliament in a debate about Nuclear Test veterans and their compensation etc. He grudgingly ( MoD)was forced to apologise but refuses to correct the Hansard version of the debate. So on the record it appears that his statement was accurate. I also
asked for a correction in Hansard. over his discredited comments on our lack of support.
This minister should understand that he cannot fart against thunder !
AWESOME and DAMNING .
Charles Lovelace says...
I made a formal complaint as a private individual to the Cabinet Office about Rowbathan and his dissimulation. He was misleading in the debate at Westmister Hall and in my opinion deliberately so. With supporting evidence
I have made a very stong case against him. EG. His claim that there was very little support and that the MoD had received less than 200 letters. Well
one letter sent to his predecessor had 3000 supporters under their banner and another 10,500. I also obtained under the FOI a copy of a recent MoD in house e-mail with the following question and answer. (?) Which medal has more canvassing than any other ? (A) The National Defence Medal. In my
opinion he is disingenuous, dishonourable and untrustworthy.
He is also under investigation for misleading parliament in a debate about Nuclear Test veterans and their compensation etc. He grudgingly ( MoD)was forced to apologise but refuses to correct the Hansard version of the debate. So on the record it appears that his statement was accurate. I also
asked for a correction in Hansard. over his discredited comments on our lack of support.
This minister should understand that he cannot fart against thunder !
Well done again, Charles. Thank you so much for your hard work and tenacity. You clearly have the measure of this politician.
In the forum posts, I posted a link to an internet article about Robathan's general behaviour in the House of Commons. The article is by a left-wing group and must be viewed as 'internet gossip', but piece by piece, I find that small pieces of information, when put together, start to form a more reliable picture about a person.
Robathan's stance regarding our campaign has been sneering.and disdainful. I will, with apologies, re-quote from a previous posting of mine:
"Personally, I, like many of you, have had to bury comrades who died in peacetime. I feel insulted for the families of the dead and those of us who were committed to service when the likes of Andrew Robathan try to belittle our contribution."
With widespread parliamentary support following the EDM 327, backing from thousands of veterans and their organisations, precedents in New Zealand and Australia and the support of prominent people at the highest level - what part or the argument do these people not 'get' ?
Charles, Terry and Tony, you have presented the case perfectly and hit with the PM interview at exactly the right time. Keep up the pressure, I do believe we are making some progress....
In the forum posts, I posted a link to an internet article about Robathan's general behaviour in the House of Commons. The article is by a left-wing group and must be viewed as 'internet gossip', but piece by piece, I find that small pieces of information, when put together, start to form a more reliable picture about a person.
Robathan's stance regarding our campaign has been sneering.and disdainful. I will, with apologies, re-quote from a previous posting of mine:
"Personally, I, like many of you, have had to bury comrades who died in peacetime. I feel insulted for the families of the dead and those of us who were committed to service when the likes of Andrew Robathan try to belittle our contribution."
With widespread parliamentary support following the EDM 327, backing from thousands of veterans and their organisations, precedents in New Zealand and Australia and the support of prominent people at the highest level - what part or the argument do these people not 'get' ?
Charles, Terry and Tony, you have presented the case perfectly and hit with the PM interview at exactly the right time. Keep up the pressure, I do believe we are making some progress....
Charles Lovelace says...
I made a formal complaint as a private individual to the Cabinet Office about Rowbathan and his dissimulation. He was misleading in the debate at Westmister Hall and in my opinion deliberately so. With supporting evidence
I have made a very stong case against him. EG. His claim that there was very little support and that the MoD had received less than 200 letters. Well
one letter sent to his predecessor had 3000 supporters under their banner and another 10,500. I also obtained under the FOI a copy of a recent MoD in house e-mail with the following question and answer. (?) Which medal has more canvassing than any other ? (A) The National Defence Medal. In my
opinion he is disingenuous, dishonourable and untrustworthy.
He is also under investigation for misleading parliament in a debate about Nuclear Test veterans and their compensation etc. He grudgingly ( MoD)was forced to apologise but refuses to correct the Hansard version of the debate. So on the record it appears that his statement was accurate. I also
asked for a correction in Hansard. over his discredited comments on our lack of support.
This minister should understand that he cannot fart against thunder !
The MOD have wasted Billions of pounds on unfinished equipment which is now out of date and therefore surplus to requirement. That money could and should go towards the expense of the National Defence Medal which is 40 years overdue..
Flyboy says...
Very good points John. It is hard not to be cynical given everything they have done so far to avoid engaging veterans. The MoD have been dragged kicking and screaming into consultation. It will be very difficult for us to believe they have any intention of changing the report they finished back in January, to do so would be to admit they made mistakes, hardly the MoD way.
I have little confidence in Mr Robathan or his review team. It needs to be independent or it will be no more than yet another stalling tactic.
One other point in this new era of Government Transparency, perhaps they will let us all read what they have written so far.
Thanks Flyboy. The Government and MoD have to show some integrity in this matter, as they are appearing to look rediculous. The Prime Minister needs to show leadership now and intervene by asking Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, to approve the NDM Medal for veterans who have served in HM Armed Forces since 1945.
On the matter of the Medal Review, the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister has already found the MoD Medal Review Committee inadequate for the task and has requested transparency in the matter. An independent panel (as described by Terry and NDM Campaign Representatives) should be delegated to look at this with perhaps one government facilitator with the view to improve the whole system for the military and all our veterans.
Think that Charles is correct in making a formal complaint, and if a Minister is deliberately misleading the government he/she has to face the consequences. This does not assist our quest, that is when it is time for the Prime Minister to intervene.
Just out of interest, with regard to medal grievances, is there such a thing as a (at least near) definitive list of said grievances? I spoke to a chap recently who'd served in N' Ireland and one of the Balkan States, in the last few years, who was aggrieved that neither were now recognised by way of a medal.
There seems to be no end of military involvement in things/places where either the engagement has gone on longer than the medal entitlement or a medal, for whatever reason, was never asked for in the first place.
I would be interested out of a mixture of curiosity and kindred spirit.
There seems to be no end of military involvement in things/places where either the engagement has gone on longer than the medal entitlement or a medal, for whatever reason, was never asked for in the first place.
I would be interested out of a mixture of curiosity and kindred spirit.
He/they know they have been caught out and that they are firmly in the minority regarding the NDM, Rowbathan has demonstrated his gross hypocrasy in trying to explain his statement and the review as being just a draft, in line with the Govt's transparency agenda, pardon!! The review has been shown, by us; to have been about as transparant as trying to find a jet black book in a jet black box, buried in a jet black filing cabinet, locked in the deepest darkest dungeon, in the MoD, whilst equiped with a torch with dead batteries.
As a veterans minister Robathan is as much use as a chocolate fireguard, his only priority is climbing the greasy political pole, whilst using us as footholds, transparancy agenda, what total bollocks, I bet his nose was growing as he got some office prole to write it.
You can bet that when we do get the medal, he'll be first in line to get it, and I hope it gets pinned where the sun don't shine! Mind you, he may show some iota of being a officer and gentleman, as he possibly was before he became a lie*"%** to**er of a politician; and be decent and not apply, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
We have the moral high ground, HM has already set the precedent, and Robathan et al are all too aware of it, so we need to keep the pressure on, and our powder dry.
As a veterans minister Robathan is as much use as a chocolate fireguard, his only priority is climbing the greasy political pole, whilst using us as footholds, transparancy agenda, what total bollocks, I bet his nose was growing as he got some office prole to write it.
You can bet that when we do get the medal, he'll be first in line to get it, and I hope it gets pinned where the sun don't shine! Mind you, he may show some iota of being a officer and gentleman, as he possibly was before he became a lie*"%** to**er of a politician; and be decent and not apply, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
We have the moral high ground, HM has already set the precedent, and Robathan et al are all too aware of it, so we need to keep the pressure on, and our powder dry.
This thing can never work as long as the MOD is looking at the MOD, an independant review is the only way to reach a reasoned conclusion. I for one think the Veterams Minister should get a vote of "No Confidence" from the veteran's and be removed to one of the MOD's deepest dungeons. Mr Robothan, You Sir are a Disgrace and not fit to hold office. The truth will out and you will hang your head in shame. I do not trust one word you say and am sure I do not stand alone.
AGREED . If Mr R had come out with the truth of the large support for The NDM , instead of the deliberate attempt to smear the NDM Campaign by claiming , it was ill supported . And had not tried to belittle veterans with his many below the belt remarks. And then said in his opinion he did not support The British NDM with sound reasons for his non support . Then I , although would not agree , would respect his position . But it is obvious by the tactics used that there is strong support for such a medal being bestowed upon all those who have served their nation loyally in the British armed forces , but the MOD and their mouthpieces are living in the dark ages and want to keep their little empire of decision making out of public view .
Dave]
This thing can never work as long as the MOD is looking at the MOD, an independant review is the only way to reach a reasoned conclusion. I for one think the Veterams Minister should get a vote of "No Confidence" from the veteran's and be removed to one of the MOD's deepest dungeons. Mr Robothan, You Sir are a Disgrace and not fit to hold office. The truth will out and you will hang your head in shame. I do not trust one word you say and am sure I do not stand alone.
[/Dave]
Dave]
This thing can never work as long as the MOD is looking at the MOD, an independant review is the only way to reach a reasoned conclusion. I for one think the Veterams Minister should get a vote of "No Confidence" from the veteran's and be removed to one of the MOD's deepest dungeons. Mr Robothan, You Sir are a Disgrace and not fit to hold office. The truth will out and you will hang your head in shame. I do not trust one word you say and am sure I do not stand alone.
[/Dave]
I have today recieved a request to sign a petition to campaign for the Diamond jubilee medal, whilst I agree with the basic sentiment I question if now is the right time to start campaigning for medals other than the NDM. Divide and rule has so often been the case with these things and fighting a worthy adversary such as the MOD we need a united front and a clear statement that only the NDM is acceptable recognition. However as I say I basically agree with other campaigns, but is now the right time, maybe we would be better served to wait until the NDM is refused before inundating the MOD with other demands, they may then decide the NDM would indeed be the easiest way to quell the discontent and do another famous adjustment to their position!. I do recommend the poetry by Russelll G Robison used on the email and have previously sent the same to the PM and a few others to explain our position.
The Brotherhood
Someone has to stand the line,
In peace or in a war.
But distance from the battlefield,
Was not how we kept score.
Duty, honour, country,
Is what we did and more.
For we are one together,
And that is worth fighting for.
The brotherhood is not about,
The ones who faced the fight.
Its all about the ones who served,
And did what they thought right.
Russell
Delta Blue
The Brotherhood
Someone has to stand the line,
In peace or in a war.
But distance from the battlefield,
Was not how we kept score.
Duty, honour, country,
Is what we did and more.
For we are one together,
And that is worth fighting for.
The brotherhood is not about,
The ones who faced the fight.
Its all about the ones who served,
And did what they thought right.
Russell
Delta Blue
Govt. spokesman says: 'This medal recognises the unique requirements of military service. These include commitment to serving one's country, the possibility of operational service, military discipline and lifestyle and the constraints on employment conditions and personal freedoms that come with life in the military.' - Unfortunately this was the NZ Govt.
Having read this - as the Rt Hon gentleman certainly must have - He still has time to do the Right and Honourable thing.
Having read this - as the Rt Hon gentleman certainly must have - He still has time to do the Right and Honourable thing.
Dave says...
I have today recieved a request to sign a petition to campaign for the Diamond jubilee medal, whilst I agree with the basic sentiment I question if now is the right time to start campaigning for medals other than the NDM. Divide and rule has so often been the case with these things and fighting a worthy adversary such as the MOD we need a united front and a clear statement that only the NDM is acceptable recognition. However as I say I basically agree with other campaigns, but is now the right time, maybe we would be better served to wait until the NDM is refused before inundating the MOD with other demands, they may then decide the NDM would indeed be the easiest way to quell the discontent and do another famous adjustment to their position!. I do recommend the poetry by Russelll G Robison used on the email and have previously sent the same to the PM and a few others to explain our position.
The Brotherhood
Someone has to stand the line,
In peace or in a war.
But distance from the battlefield,
Was not how we kept score.
Duty, honour, country,
Is what we did and more.
For we are one together,
And that is worth fighting for.
The brotherhood is not about,
The ones who faced the fight.
Its all about the ones who served,
And did what they thought right.
Russell
Delta Blue
NATIONAL DEFENCE MEDAL (UK NDM)
Excellent message Dave.
Our veterans stand resolute by requesting the NDM to be awarded to all who served in HM Armed Forces (regular and volunteer) since 1945.
We request the Prime Minister David Cameron to intervene to show his support of UK veterans, by asking Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, to approve the award of the NDM in 2011.
In regards to the Diamond Jubilee Medal in Her Majesty's Anniversary year, we support the initiative by all our brotherhood to have this medal formerly recognised and available for our veterans in 2012.
AGREED : All the soldiers , sailors and airmen who served , serving and will serve , have , are and will play their part in protecting the reign of Her Majesty , the governments and the people of these Islands during Her Majesty's reign , and may it long continue , enabling such a long and successful period of monarchal reign . So it should be fitting , for once , that those who have stood ready , in this land , should been honored and not those , which seems to be the normal in this land , who feed off the honors system without even so much as considering those who make it possible for them to do so .
John Proffitt says...
NATIONAL DEFENCE MEDAL (UK NDM)
Excellent message Dave.
Our veterans stand resolute by requesting the NDM to be awarded to all who served in HM Armed Forces (regular and volunteer) since 1945.
We request the Prime Minister David Cameron to intervene to show his support of UK veterans, by asking Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, to approve the award of the NDM in 2011.
In regards to the Diamond Jubilee Medal in Her Majesty's Anniversary year, we support the initiative by all our brotherhood to have this medal formerly recognised and available for our veterans in 2012.
Dave says...
I have today recieved a request to sign a petition to campaign for the Diamond jubilee medal, whilst I agree with the basic sentiment I question if now is the right time to start campaigning for medals other than the NDM. Divide and rule has so often been the case with these things and fighting a worthy adversary such as the MOD we need a united front and a clear statement that only the NDM is acceptable recognition. However as I say I basically agree with other campaigns, but is now the right time, maybe we would be better served to wait until the NDM is refused before inundating the MOD with other demands, they may then decide the NDM would indeed be the easiest way to quell the discontent and do another famous adjustment to their position!. I do recommend the poetry by Russelll G Robison used on the email and have previously sent the same to the PM and a few others to explain our position.
The Brotherhood
Someone has to stand the line,
In peace or in a war.
But distance from the battlefield,
Was not how we kept score.
Duty, honour, country,
Is what we did and more.
For we are one together,
And that is worth fighting for.
The brotherhood is not about,
The ones who faced the fight.
Its all about the ones who served,
And did what they thought right.
Russell
Delta Blue
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