Campaign News

Like you say Flyboy, hopefully we have a better chance now. The more retired senior officers who are now able to express themselves poilitically the better it will be. Good luck to the General.

Good news, but now watch the New Labour smear campaign. Sadly they are past masters at the 'black arts'. Absolutely, gutless, venal and squalid.

Fear Charles is right on the 'black arts' but Winston was ex Army and battled through to win over all.Let's hope the General stays the distance even if just to help our boys and girls in Afghanistan.

pjwilson says...
Fear Charles is right on the 'black arts' but Winston was ex Army and battled through to win over all.Let's hope the General stays the distance even if just to help our boys and girls in Afghanistan.

This site is not supposed to be political - let's keep things the way they were intended to be, as a fight for the NDM. You are entitled to your politcal opinions but remember we do not all share this apparent devotion to the conservative party.

It is true to be successful, in the end, cross party support should be sought and be achievable. I think you may see a softening in attitude from current Labour MPs if they end up in opposition. If the Tories win then they will need to deliver, only then can we make any real judgements. And let us not forget the head of the armed forces has a role to play.

Terry, sorry if it sounded political . The point I was trying to make was that Winston served in two political parties but being ex military his heart appeared to be with the forces he had served with and he supported them to the best of his abilities.For the record I don't trust politicians anymore than I trust civil servants.

pjwilson says...
Terry, sorry if it sounded political . The point I was trying to make was that Winston served in two political parties but being ex military his heart appeared to be with the forces he had served with and he supported them to the best of his abilities.For the record I don't trust politicians anymore than I trust civil servants.

I just felt that the comments on Government spin, and the black arts were uncalled for. Never more so than when the shadow home secretary called his appointment
a gimmick, then when realising it was the conservatives who had planned this, it was suddenly a great idea. I also wonder how much this outcome had influenced Danat's earlier criticism of the government.
Never-the-less, I feel that the major stumbling block to the cause is Mr R T Coney and his ilk. That is where we should be expending our energies.

Mr. Terry Donelly,
I have no political axe to grind. I have been infuriated by all political parties and their lack of support. I respectfully ask you to peruse the first ever letter in the Letters section. Then you will know where I am coming from. Finally Don Touhig, Labour who I met on NDM business was 100% supportive as was Mike Hancock, CBE.
Lib Dem. Finally when with our chairman, I met Des Browne we were able to familiarise him with our claim and get our point across. He was then most reasonable and appreciative.
My comment on spin relates specifically to Gordon Brown's former advisers and to the fact that Bob Ainsworth had to issue an edict to those ministers and civil servants within the MoD not to spin against Dannatt whilst he was serving.
Their expenses paper chase against him failed dismally, since he entertained at a
modest £14.00 per head and only supplied cheap plonk. Compare that to Labour and Conservative mortgage, moats, duckponds and swimming bath scams. My MP
Conservative repaid nearly £13k and was a claimant for cleaning his swimming bath. Now do you think I am as a septuagenarian inclined to vote for him ?
He paid back more than my annual pension. Finally the person who has been most injurious to all medal campaigns has been Mr. R.T.Coney and this is on record.

Charles Lovelace. says...
Mr. Terry Donelly,
I have no political axe to grind. I have been infuriated by all political parties and their lack of support. I respectfully ask you to peruse the first ever letter in the Letters section. Then you will know where I am coming from. Finally Don Touhig, Labour who I met on NDM business was 100% supportive as was Mike Hancock, CBE.
Lib Dem. Finally when with our chairman, I met Des Browne we were able to familiarise him with our claim and get our point across. He was then most reasonable and appreciative.
My comment on spin relates specifically to Gordon Brown's former advisers and to the fact that Bob Ainsworth had to issue an edict to those ministers and civil servants within the MoD not to spin against Dannatt whilst he was serving.
Their expenses paper chase against him failed dismally, since he entertained at a
modest £14.00 per head and only supplied cheap plonk. Compare that to Labour and Conservative mortgage, moats, duckponds and swimming bath scams. My MP
Conservative repaid nearly £13k and was a claimant for cleaning his swimming bath. Now do you think I am as a septuagenarian inclined to vote for him ?
He paid back more than my annual pension. Finally the person who has been most injurious to all medal campaigns has been Mr. R.T.Coney and this is on record.

Please do not take my comments personally, that was not my intent. When read ing through all the letters on this subject , do you not see a right wing influence, or am I simply paranoid. If I have caused you offence then please accept my apologies. At least we can agree on Mr Coney.

We are united in our anger and frustration at the cavalier way in which our submissions have been dismissed as being of no relevance, that is probably because the Award system is rooted in the 19th Century but that should not be true in today's world, as is s evidenced by the way that the British Armed Forces are now unique in not having a Defence medal for all arms all ranks. That and the Covenant the NDM would underscore is the real issue but I would be lying if I did not admit to having a real problem with your Nu Labour shower, under which the Armed Forces are dying slowly from a 'thousand cuts'! A large proportion of which are the legacy of Gordon Brown himself.

From 12000 miles away, it seems to me that Labour in the UK needs to go back to its roots and ditch some of the lawyers, parasites and intellectual buffoons it has hoovered up in the last couple of decades.

No problems, One & All. We remain united and our cause is just. Maintenance of aim and we will win.
Rgds- Charles.

Whilst the campaign must remain apolitical, we have had only negative responses from the incumbent government and so our only option to further our cause is through an alternative government who hopefully, will be more responsive to our campaign. The colour of the party should remain irrelevant but unfortunately we are only able to further our campaign through the media of the government of the day.
I feel it is in the interest of the campaign for us to lobby all major parties as this should be a cross party initiative. We really do need to get some positive responses particularly from the present opposition parties, the letter to David Kelley from Dr Liam Fox is certainly a step in the right direction and maybe we should concentrate on this angle, namely the restructuring of the HD committee and the need for a National Defence Medal.
If we can inform the general public and service personnel past and present of the potential for a NDM by parties a, b or c, then ultimately it is up to the voters to vote according to their conscience.

As has been expressed by others, the NDM should eventually be a symbol of the covenant between the people of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, the government of the day and the service men and women who, when enlisting, virtually give the government a blank check to send them into a variety of situations at their whim.
The covenant, while being an integral part of any agreement between the government and the service men and women, is something that we should keep to the fore during our campaign, but at the same time, not cloud the demand for a NDM as this could delay any medal discussions during parliamentary debate on a covenant, which could literally take years to conclude.

Interesting discussion, however no matter how we feel we cannot leave politics out of our aims, we are where we are. The only government that we can have a GO at is the present discredited gang who General Dannat unmasked for their spin and deceitful underfunding. For a dozen years it has sent troops into combat under manned and under resourced. They have a disdain for the military whether serving or retired that lies at the root of all your problems with the NDM. It is nothing new for politicians to put in place senior military figures. Asquit made Kitchener Secretary of State for War in 1914 and Churchill had Allenbrooke throughout WW2. Mr Coney and his type are just time serving civil servants who do the bidding of their masters. The people we need to discredit are the so called Ministers of Defence who are not fit to lace up Richard Dannats boots. Not least the present incumbant Bob Ainsworth. After 34 years service I don't trust any politician, but if we can get somebody to listen to us and move this issue forward I could not care who does it, as long as there are some of us left to wear with pride the NDM.

In spite of my comments above that we should remain apolitical, we do have to take into account which group will serve our purpose and, like it or not, ?butter up to them?.
It seems likely that the Conservative party will form the next government and maybe will need the support of the Liberal Democrats to get legislation through parliament, so we will need the support of these two parties for our campaign to be successful.
If we can say to the general public and service personnel past and present that party a, b or c will support our campaign, that really is all we can do without coming across as a right wing support group for the Tory party, which would ultimately lose some of our support.
It may seem like having your cake and eating it but it is a fact of life that we have to do all that is necessary to further our campaign. We must win at all costs.

Had I have been a lifelong Labour supporter, which I am not, I would be so incensed at their lack of concern and compassion for those of our ilk that I could not possibly cast a vote for them. So I would ask this, in order to see that we end up with a fighting chance of getting the NDM concept up and running. Can any lifelong Labour people that want to see the NDM a reality, please simply not vote at all. That way they are not betraying a lifetimes commitment, they are simply exercising a fundamental right to demonstrate their disappointment and outrage at the damage already done and still being done, against the Armed Forces of the UK by a political Party that has totally lost its way.

Gerry says...
I would be so incensed at their lack of concern and compassion for those of our ilk that I could not possibly cast a vote for them.

Gerry there are still many in the UK that do not trust the Tories and still feel it is a case of better the devil you know. A change in Government is by no means a foregone conclusion. It is for this reason we need to lobby ALL, and alienate none.
The NDM is for our service folk, perhaps it is the Brass that should be taking the lead and we shouldn't rely so much on the politicians. What does Gen Dannatt think?

Sandman says...
Gerry there are still many in the UK that do not trust the Tories and still feel it is a case of better the devil you know. A change in Government is by no means a foregone conclusion. It is for this reason we need to lobby ALL, and alienate none.
The NDM is for our service folk, perhaps it is the Brass that should be taking the lead and we shouldn't rely so much on the politicians. What does Gen Dannatt think?

G'Day Sandman,

Mate, I have tried contacting the CDS and all he does is parrot the official line, so contacting the brass has not been productive at all.

Labour has been the party in power since the NDM issue came alive and thus, its performance or lack thereof has been the stumbling block to progress being made. In an ideal world we could indeed be unconcerned with politics per se in pursuing the concept of a NDM but those of us that have been in the trenches with this campaign have seen at first hand, time and again, just how little concern is shown for that which we seek. Performance is what judgements are usually made on and up to now, from where I stand, three 'P's would about summarise that of the currently ruling party on the UK. Even putting the NDM issue aside for a moment, the lack of equipment so vital for the troops placed in the line of fire in Afghanistan is an appalling indictment of the Brown Admintsration and no one who has worn the uniforms of the realm ought to be comfortable with that.

I would bet the farm that HM the Queen would be delighted to see a NDM set up for the British Armed Forces, problem is and always has been, that she is powerless to intervene directly.

Gordon Brown in particular has made a career out of milking the Armed Forces to provide cash to cover shortfalls elsewhere. As Chancellor and Prime Minister, his plundering has never faltered, with any and all methods of unlocking cash from the various branches and ancilliaries of the Armed Forces shamelessly exploited. So as I say, any judgement made has good ground on which it has been based.

That all said, we should direct our effort at the acquiring of a NDM and not get bogged down in petty party politicking for any side, unless they are promising to deliver the goods.